Fire Alarms in Utah
I went to a site visit yesterday and the owner did not have a set of plans, a layout of what he or she needed or wanted and no idea of what type of system, how many devices or even what systems other than a fire, security and camera system. This is a bit like going into a car dealer and telling them you want to buy a CAR without giving a model, make, year,type, budget or without getting financing etc...most people understand this concept. Becoming educated somewhat in this area will save your company headaches down the road as well as money. I was the Chairman for the Alarm Board for the State of Utah for years and we heard case after case about companies that got into problems because they tried to save money using low bidders without a specification or plans. Paying a company up front to help you through this process is well worth your money and time. You can trust the salesman and decide you don't need to be educated although that is not very prudent.
Normally it is customary for the owner or owners representative to put out SPECIFICATIONS and PLANS which include a scope of work which will help you avoid most costly order changes. Typically the low bidder gets the job and then the techs search for ways to cut corners since they bid too low. These cuts normally end up being in using inferior equipment or cutting corners. This is why companies pay Engineers to write Specifications and draw up plans so there is no question what will be provided and how. This also helps avoid costly order changes down the road.
We can put figures together although I would like to counsel you so you are aware that companies will want to lock you into a monitoring contract and if the fire panel is separate from the security panel there will be 2 monthly monitoring fees for 3 to 5 years. Our monitoring cost is $26.95 per month without a contract that locks you into a long term commitment and this covers both the fire alarm and the security if they dial out on one panel. We figure that if we are going a good job then you will stay with us and if not then we don't mind if you change companies.
COMMUNICATIONS
A. You will need 2 analog phone lines if you want to have your fire panel dial out using a dialer. Most current dialers are not UL listed to use digital lines and it causes communication issues. This method dials out normally once a day and if the phone lines get cut just after your test you will not be informed of any alarms or troubles until you miss the 24 hour test. Some people then add Cellular Backup which costs another $300-$400 plus a monthly cell bill of $16 or so in addition to the monitoring.
B. If you want to use Radio then the upfront equipment cost for the communication unit is $1,200 (Peak Alarm can do it for much less because of our AES Radio network) and then the monthly monitoring fee. It depends on if there are other Radio transceivers in the area as to whether or not the AHJ fire Marshal will allow this method.
C. If you want to use the Internet it must be a Static IP address and the module installed costs $600 and you need to have the ports open to use this method although it poles every few minutes. The concern here is that the routers may or may not have battery backup and may nor may not be as reliable as you need them to be.
D. High Supervision Cellular - This is also $600 for the equipment but there is a $22 per month cell bill since it dials out over 4000 times a month. About every 6 minutes so if the lines get cut you know right away that there is a problem. This is UL listed for Fire.
Avoid proprietary equipment since some equipment can only be serviced and sold by one or a limited amount of companies in the state. There are several BOSCH dealers in Utah and Bosch does offer panels that are UL listed for Security and fire alarm as well as access control for up to 8 doors with the same panel. There are also several DMP and DSX dealers. Hochiki is our brand of Fire Alarm that we like the best although we also install Silent Knight and Firelite.
We can put figures together although I would like to counsel you so you are aware that companies will want to lock you into a monitoring contract and if the fire panel is separate from the security panel there will be 2 monthly monitoring fees for 3 to 5 years. Our monitoring cost is $26.95 per month without a contract that locks you into a long term commitment and this covers both the fire alarm and the security if they dial out on one panel. We figure that if we are going a good job then you will stay with us and if not then we don't mind if you change companies.
COMMUNICATIONS
A. You will need 2 analog phone lines if you want to have your fire panel dial out using a dialer. Most current dialers are not UL listed to use digital lines and it causes communication issues. This method dials out normally once a day and if the phone lines get cut just after your test you will not be informed of any alarms or troubles until you miss the 24 hour test. Some people then add Cellular Backup which costs another $300-$400 plus a monthly cell bill of $16 or so in addition to the monitoring.
B. If you want to use Radio then the upfront equipment cost for the communication unit is $1,200 (Peak Alarm can do it for much less because of our AES Radio network) and then the monthly monitoring fee. It depends on if there are other Radio transceivers in the area as to whether or not the AHJ fire Marshal will allow this method.
C. If you want to use the Internet it must be a Static IP address and the module installed costs $600 and you need to have the ports open to use this method although it poles every few minutes. The concern here is that the routers may or may not have battery backup and may nor may not be as reliable as you need them to be.
D. High Supervision Cellular - This is also $600 for the equipment but there is a $22 per month cell bill since it dials out over 4000 times a month. About every 6 minutes so if the lines get cut you know right away that there is a problem. This is UL listed for Fire.
Avoid proprietary equipment since some equipment can only be serviced and sold by one or a limited amount of companies in the state. There are several BOSCH dealers in Utah and Bosch does offer panels that are UL listed for Security and fire alarm as well as access control for up to 8 doors with the same panel. There are also several DMP and DSX dealers. Hochiki is our brand of Fire Alarm that we like the best although we also install Silent Knight and Firelite.
B. If you want to use Radio then the upfront equipment cost for the communication unit is $1,200 (Peak Alarm can do it for much less because of our AES Radio network) and then the monthly monitoring fee. It depends on if there are other Radio transceivers in the area as to whether or not the AHJ fire Marshal will allow this method.
C. If you want to use the Internet it must be a Static IP address and the module installed costs $600 and you need to have the ports open to use this method although it poles every few minutes. The concern here is that the routers may or may not have battery backup and may nor may not be as reliable as you need them to be.
D. High Supervision Cellular - This is also $600 for the equipment but there is a $22 per month cell bill since it dials out over 4000 times a month. About every 6 minutes so if the lines get cut you know right away that there is a problem. This is UL listed for Fire.
Avoid proprietary equipment since some equipment can only be serviced and sold by one or a limited amount of companies in the state. There are several BOSCH dealers in Utah and Bosch does offer panels that are UL listed for Security and fire alarm as well as access control for up to 8 doors with the same panel. There are also several DMP and DSX dealers. Hochiki is our brand of Fire Alarm that we like the best although we also install Silent Knight and Firelite.
D. High Supervision Cellular - This is also $600 for the equipment but there is a $22 per month cell bill since it dials out over 4000 times a month. About every 6 minutes so if the lines get cut you know right away that there is a problem. This is UL listed for Fire.
Avoid proprietary equipment since some equipment can only be serviced and sold by one or a limited amount of companies in the state. There are several BOSCH dealers in Utah and Bosch does offer panels that are UL listed for Security and fire alarm as well as access control for up to 8 doors with the same panel. There are also several DMP and DSX dealers. Hochiki is our brand of Fire Alarm that we like the best although we also install Silent Knight and Firelite.
Many times low bidders will include proprietary equipment for just this purpose and then you get STUCK with them and cannot change without spending a great deal more but a warning because we charge $77 per hour labor rate but many of these companies will get in the door at a lower rate and then raise the labor to a much higher rate.
FIRE ALARM
1. In an existing building most of the time pull stations at the doors can be re-used as can the horn/strobes (sounders and flashers)if they meet current code. You may need to replace the smoke at the panel location, tone out the wires that were pulled through the walls and any existing equipment will not have a warranty since it may or may not work. This information is applicable to many existing buildings with older systems. New buildings will require that an Engineer design the Fire System and it is a good idea to hire an experienced alarm company to help with the specifications and design even thought that company may not win the bid.
2. The Fire Marshal may require a drawing, battery calculations, voltage line drop calculations and cut sheets of the equipment done by a certified tech through the State Fire Marshals office.
3. Often existing Horn/strobe locations may be enough and most likely the AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) will point out problems if you try to get by without meeting code. Smoke detection will not be required other than at the panel and Elevator lobbies and equipment rooms because it is a fully sprinkled building although some insurance companies will give you a break for having smoke detection since it is considered life safety and sprinklers are considered building structure protection. You see by the time the ceiling is 165 degrees there is already major damage and if you had smoke detection you would know about the problem way before the sprinklers activate and destroy your computers etc....Do not use this document as a code reference. You should refer directly to the codes instead.
4. If you do put out a specification and scope letter we can get more exact with the pricing otherwise we have to put in contingency funds to cover "Just in case" issues.
SECURITY
1. Sometimes in existing buildings you will have left over equipment that may or may not work and the wire in the building can be re-used if it is in good condition although tracing wire runs can be costly and sometimes it can be more costly than having a tech run new wire. You need to weigh the difference and decide for yourself. Sometimes it is like trying to fix your plumbing at home by yourself, you may end up spending more money and time than you would if you would have called a professional in.
2. It would be best to tie your security and fire into the same panel that will share battery backup and share the phonelines or communicator. There are appropriate building where this works quite well and for very large facilities I would suggest that they be kept separate. If you do them separately then you will have two separate monitoring charges per month and many times you will end up with different service people since licensing issues can cause problems with different equipment.
3. If you can give us an idea of what you would like to accomplish we can price this system for you more professionally. An example is do you want to be able to arm the shop separately from the office area so shop employees can stay late or come in early but not have access to the office. If so you will need some new contacts installed.
4. If we need to run or install new wire then we will need a lift if the ceilings are high and you can rent this lift or have us rent one and if you rent it then you can avoid the markup of us renting the lift.
CAMERA SYSTEMS
1. We offer a wide range of camera systems, recorders etc... Many people ask about being able to zoom in after the incident and this is possible but that would mean you should install MEGA PIXEL IP cameras and we can price those out for you and understand that if you only have one analog camera looking at a large area then the people will also appear very small on the screen and on the recording so having more cameras will allow you to identify people better. We can install regular IP cameras, Mega Pixel cameras, Pan Tilt Zoom Cameras that can tour etc... but we need to know some specifics before we put tons of work into something we most likely will loose to a low bidder.
2. Bosch has a new recorder that you can assign a static IP address and you can access it via your IPHONE and this DVR is ideal for something like this and we could sell you a 2 TB unit or if you want Mega Pixel cameras we would sell you an NVR with much more storage. We also sell other brands that cost less and have a shorter warranty like 1 or 2 years depending on the model.
How many days of storage do you need? The amount of days will depend on how many frames or images per second you set the system up to record, the resolution etc.....Have this information ready for the security company so they will have information to work with.
3. Out side cameras have a wide range of prices and Overseas models cannot compete very well with brand name cameras like Bosch or Pelco. Bosch does have a low end line that does have competitive pricing and a 3 year warranty but if you need DAY NIGHT cameras you should install a midrange camera rather than trying to save money by installing cheap cameras. Many times cheap equipment will cost you more in the long run since the install and the wire cost is the same but you may end up needing to change out the camera later. I tell you this because if you tell your security company that you want a motion in the entry way and you don't followup as to what they put in it may be a 25 dollar motion pron to false alarms and then they will also get more money out of you for responding to those alarms and additional service calls. However if you install a Bosch Tritech quality motion that has less false alarms then it ends up costing less in the long run.
4. DVRs range in cost from $1000 each up depending on your features, audio, how many inputs etc.... Cameras range in cost from $50 and up and we don't sell those low end cameras very often because they go out soon so we recommend a good midrange camera that is verifocal and after we can meet with the person that will be making the decisions we can do some calculations once we get an idea what you want to view and we will be monitoring then we can price the system out for you. If we mount the cameras to the building or to the light poles this will be price factor since conduit will need to be installed in the ground. South facing cameras do not do very well and West facing cameras will washout when the sun goes down even with the higher end cameras and backlight compensation.
Typically a decent indoor camera costs just over $300 and installation is normally about $200 and cable is another $60 to $100 depending on a few factors and if you add a weather proof housing or other features the price goes up. A decent Mega Pixel camera costs over $1000 and a Pan Tilt zoom cameras start at $1000 for a 10 times zoom and go up to $4,000 for a 36 times zoom with auto tracking then you would add cable and labor costs to those base prices. Cameras with less or more features will take the price up or down. IP cameras range from $300 and up but quality is a big factor so we would need to know if you only need 2 megapixel, 4, 8 or if on the analog cameras you need 340 TVL resolution or over 500 or 600 TVL or even 700. Do you want monitors or do you want to use your computer monitors. Do you want the public to see any camera views in the lobby? There are many factors when trying to decide on the right system for your project. Do you need to view the video remotely do you need ability to burn a DVD or is a USB port all that you need.
As you can see many of these topics are too complicated to discuss over an email so we look forward to meeting with you if you so desire so we can answer your questions and provide what we feel would work for you after you give us a basic scope of what you want to accomplish. If you want to have cameras inside it will be a great deterrent since most theft ends up being internal.
ACCESS CONTROL
1. Prox readers or biometric readers to allow you to get into the building, normally this is tied to the fire alarm and to maglocks or electric strikes and the system may be PC based or can be tied into the fire and security system. Bosch offers 3 lines of Access Control a lower end up to 8 doors, midrange up to 32 and ReadyKey Pro which is unlimited doors. You can program cards so the janitor can come in only on Wed from 5PM to 7PM and their card will not work at other times. Some employees can have full access and other limited access. Typically access control costs from $1600 per door to $2,700 per door depending on the location of the door and the locks etc....If you get a card printer for pictures and a badging system this is an additional cost.
GOAL
Our goal is to help you the customer to get a system that will work well, meet code and allow us to be your contractor for many years rather than just a quick sell so we want to make you happy. We are willing to come in and explain the systems and how they are different if you give us the time to do so. We understand that many times owners and decision makers are very busy so it would be best to have us come by when you have time to go over these items when you are not rushed. As professionals we can do a better job when you give us the ability to meet your needs. If you can't be bothered with these type of details and would rather have other people just handle it then we understand that as well. When you trust companies that much to not be bothered with specifics many times you end up with a higher price and a lower quality on the equipment than you could have had. If you have a person that will be overseeing this then we would be interested in meeting with them. As you can see we have been detailed on this report and we also can take measurements of your facility so we could bid out the project and we want to take time on the bid rather than throwing a quick number at it. When you involve experts many times they give you too much information and I understand this frustration although it would be a disservice to you for me not to point out these thing things
Larry Love Larry@PeakAlarm.com 801 428 1384 www.PeakAlarm.com
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